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About Kathy Noll...
Kathy Noll was always creative as a child, making up stories to entertain friends, and that still holds true today. Taking a two-year writing course to improve her techniques, she has also learned a lot through observation, and over-thinking!

Kathy says, "With me, the most important thing in writing is notes, notes, notes! Everything in my environment gives me ideas throughout the day, and I'm quick to write them down so I don't forget. Some of the stuff might fit what I'm currently working on. The rest, I'll save as inspiration for future projects."

"I have also found that I can write the best, and get the most done, when I play the role of the hermit! Sometimes I compare myself to Beethoven. In that when we're working on something creative, we neglect ourselves in order to stay focused and get it finished quickly. For example: hair-unbrushed, clothes-unchanged, stomach-unfed!"

She has also had her short stories/articles published in magazines along with interviews, helped NBC news monitor a classroom in Philadelphia for bullying behavior, and also helped many pqeople with their own bully problems through her book, educational and family related internet chats, message board hosting, and e-mail.

Writing this book has generated many letters of thanks from both adults and children. She shares with us how this book has touched her:

"I want to mention a dear little boy with only one leg who gets teased at his school. He opened my book as a gift from his mother on Christmas morning, and didn't put it down until he finished.

He then said, "I feel a lot better about myself now; this is the best book I ever read."

When his mother told me this, with tears in my eyes I told her, "Now I know why I wrote the book.""

Please e-mail me at: kthynoll@aol.com

About Jay Carter... Dr. Jay Carter (MA, PsyD) is a Licensed Psychologist in private practice in West Reading, PA - Carter Counseling. Professional speaker since 1974, he is the best selling author of Nasty People and Nasty Men," addressing issues of conflict and difficult personalities. His books have sold 1/2 million copies, his latest one being Butterflies: The Transformation of Man.

He is on the Executive Committee for the Berks Area Psychological Society, under contract with Berks County Prison (where he learned a lot about the Bully mentality), and is currently contracted with the Caron Foundation to do evaluations for adolescents.

Dr. Carter has taught thousands of people through adult education courses and workshops dealing with Charisma, Leadership, and Difficult People. His books and workshops have made positive changes in personal and professional lives.

He has also appeared on numerous radio and TV shows around the world, and consulted with the Oprah Winfrey Show for shows on "Verbal Abuse" and "Obnoxious Husbands." "Readers Digest" consulted with him for an article on Mean People, and he was awarded with the Maggie Award for an article on the Contagiousness of Verbal Abuse in "Mothering Magazine."

 


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Nasty People
by Kathy Noll & Jay Carter

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Nasty People
by Jay Carter

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Nasty Men
by Jay Carter

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Meeting Archive: Kathy Noll, Co-Author of Taking The Bully By The Horns (July 8, 1998)

buy this book
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0937004111/teachersnet/

kat/kathleen - Teachers.Net welcomes author Kathy Noll to talk about her book "Taking The Bully By The Horns" her first book. Kathy would you tell us a bit about yourself?
Kathy - Hi, I took a two year children's writing course a few years ago. Dr. Jay Carter had an add in the paper looking for a children's author to write a children's version of his book, "Nasty People." That's what my book is, "Taking the Bully by the Horns."
Kathy - My book is the children's version of Dr. Jay Carter's book, "Nasty People."
kat/kathleen - Kathy, for people who aren't familiar with Jays book, tell us about what caused you to write your Bully book
Kathy - He had an ad in the newspaper looking for an author, so I sent him some of my children's short stories & he loved them.
kat/kathleen - So you auditioned to write a book for children who are intimidated by nasty people=bullies?
Kathy - Jay's book is about invalidation between adults.
Kathy - He received a lot of mail from readers who loved his book, and benefited from it, requesting a version be written that children would understand.
kat/kathleen - Jay Carter is a psychologist, did he work with you on your Bully book?
kat/kathleen - For what age group is your book?
Kathy - Invalidation is the adult term for bullies. Yes, I auditioned because Jay needed someone to do this project and was unavailable himself.
Kathy - Yes, Jay edited the book to make sure I was giving the correct psychological advice for children 9-15 years old.
kat/kathleen - In your book, do you try to help children change the bully or live with the bully or??
Kathy - Yes, the book is written for both the Bully & the Victim. I ask the bully why he does what he does, is he angry, did someone hurt him in the past, and then I give him ideas on how to change.
kat/kathleen - Kathy, how do you define "bully"?
Kathy - For the Victim, I tell tell them they are "OK" and not the one with the problem. (self-esteem) The entire last chapter gives advice to the victim on how to handle the bully.
Kathy - Bullying can be verbal, mental, or physical. If it's physical, the victim need to tell someone.
kat/kathleen - Gert, you've been waiting for a long time, do you have a question for Kathy Noll, author of "Taking the Bully By The Horns"?
Kathy - Everyone plays the bully at some point in their lives. But some take it to a more serious degree.
Lee - Which do you feel to be the most serious?
Kathy - A Bully needs to feel in control. If he or she loses that control, then they've lost their power
kat/kathleen - Do bullies have common characteristics?
Gert - Yes, I do. Kathy, did you have any problems with bullying when you were in school?
Kathy - Lee, the physical bullying could land the victim in the hospital. However, the mental abuse will stay with you forever & could cause you to always doubt yourself.
Sandy*K*Mo - Maybe there are other definitions of bully.. I have a young girl, the product of a nasty MEAN divorce that loves to grab, hold, boss others around and is VERY loud in all she does. Plus nothing is ever her fault. No friends she is now going in the third grade, kids & even the next years teachers dread dealing with her mostly because of Mother. How can we help?
Kathy - Kathleen, Bullies are usually older, taller or stronger than their victims.
kat/kathleen - Kathy, you mentioned in the book that your Dad might have experienced being bullied because of his name ... was that the case?
Kathy - I was bullied more mentally growing up, we all were to some degree. Even as adults.
Kathy - Sandy, with a young child, it's what they observed growing that causes them to act or react as they do.
kat/kathleen - How common is bullying ... you had some interesting statistics on your web page ... can you share some here?
Kathy - Kathleen, yes the name Elmer will get you made fun of.
Lee - Should this be a part of life, being bullied, or should it be carefully monitored with actions always taken
Sandy*K*Mo - so how do we help her? Change the pattern?
Kathy - If anything about you is different - name, hair, grades - - there's always gonna be someone that doesn't like it!
kat/kathleen - Kathy, I'll invite questions from the "audience" ... just take them one at a time :-)
Mary K&1 - Kathy, you said that if the bullying is physical, the victim should tell, why not if it is verbal or mental?
Kathy - Sometimes, Sandy, the bully needs to feel better about themselves in order to stop bullying. However a three year old child might not understand, and could simply be mimicking those around her, in which case she needs more discipline in her life.
Mountainette 4/WV - How do you suggest we use the book in our classrooms?
Sandy*K*Mo - no she is now 8 going in 3rd grade
kat/kathleen - "Taking the Bully By the Horns" can be ordered at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0937004111/teachersnet/
Kathy - Mary, a victim should report any abuse, or anything that causes them to feel uncomfortable. Physical is simply the most dangerous & that's when the police might have to get involved. But, yes, all bullying is serious.
Mary K&1 - What is the structure of your book - how should it be used with students?
Kathy - At schools, libraries & Guidance counselors have been using my book.
Kathy - At one school, a boy was a victim & the librarian gave him my book to read and he said it helped him a lot, plus he felt a lot better about himself.
Kathy - A teacher could keep it on hand in case she or he sees a problem, or is told of a problem.
kat/kathleen - Kathy, is the book written so that children can benefit from it without an adult to read through it with them?
Kathy - Mary, you can find a complete list of my table of contents of the book at my web site.
Mountainette 4/WV - Is this the type book that I can read to my class?
kat/kathleen - Kathy, I believe the book could be used with a class, led by an adult, reading and discussing
Jennifer/MD - Do bullies wind up being criminals?
Mary K&1 - Do you have any plans to write a version for younger children?
Kathy - Children have been reading it themselves, but adults have also gotten some ideas out of it on how to handle situations.
Sandy*K*Mo - How young can you go with this book?
Donna/NE - When you confront a 'bully', do you also have the victim present during the discussion?
kat/kathleen - I think it would be a wonderful tool for a guidance person to use with classes
Jennifer/MD - To qualify my prev. question, do bullies become criminals unless there is positive intervention for them? Does punishment help?
Kathy - Yes, Montainette, it would be great to read to a class because it is written in first person to the Bully & to the Victim. Makes them think about what they're doing/experiencing in case they are not aware of the fact that they might be bullies or victims.
Kathy - Sandy, the book is for 9-15. That's the age group I've gotten the best response from.
Violet - Why do adults sometimes validate bullying?
ajbod - I just joined this chat. What level is your book?
Kathy - Donna, the victim could be present when the bully is confronted by either a teacher or parent. However is the Bully is dangerous & capable of seeking revenge, then it might be better as an anonymous tip.
kat/kathleen - ajbod, the book is for ages 9-15
Sandy*K*Mo - By reading this book, would I be better able to help my Kindergarten/first graders deal with this?
Kathy - Sometimes adults are too busy working or whatever to notice that their child is having a problem.
kat/kathleen - Sandy, yes, if you read the book, it will give you strategies to use with the little ones
ajbod - is it written in story format?
Kathy - They might be in denial as well.
Donna/NE - Next fall I will be getting a little 1st grade girl that is very much of a bully!
Kathy - No, it is not a story, it is self-help, but it contains actual stories from kids I interviewed for the book.
kat/kathleen - Donna, I think the book could help you prepare, maybe use it with the class without targeting the one little girl
Violet - When I have seen adults validate bullying, it always comes with an excuse about poor little Johnny or Suzy, is that denial?
ajbod - I'm looking forward to reading it. I have a 3rd grade bully in my class and he'll return as a 4th grader to my class as well
Jennifer/MD - Which better helps bullies change their ways? Positive intervention or Disapproval and Punishment?
kat/kathleen - Kathy uses humor in the book to make it appealing the ages she is addressing
Kathy - Sandy, although children over the age of 9 understand the "control" tactics & mind games section of my book better, the younger ones understand hair pulling, kicking, hitting, tripping, and could benefit if an adult shared it with them.
kat/kathleen - Violet, would you give an example of an adult 'validating' bullying?
ajbod - would you consider adults making excuses as validating?
kat/kathleen - Kathy, is one gender more likely to bully than the other?
Kathy - Jennifer, something more positive would be better for the bully. I've found in most cases that the bully simply doesn't feel good about himself.
Mary K&1 - For whom has the book been most helpful, victims or bullies?
ajbod - Do you find more bullies to be boys or girls?
Violet - Kat A child threatens a child, or physically harms, adult views behavior and makes excuses for bully due to some circumstances in the bullies' life ... blaming the victim so to speak
Karen/Can - I just joined so excuse me if you've already addressed this, isn't it true that a bullying child is coming from a place of deep anger or pain?
Jennifer/MD - Thank you, Kathy:-) I tend to agree. Labeling children as bullies does not help either.
Gert - Just a suggestion to some of the teachers on line! If there is any way possible, a teacher's aid, aka me yrs ago, especially a senior citizen, sometimes the children will relate to that person, as a child to a grandparent. It works!! I know!
Kathy - Kathleen, currently there are more girls that are bullies than boys. According to the American Justice Dept. Because they have "clicks" and they are harder on how kids look, as opposed to boys. Girls have gotten pretty good at physical violence in the past few years as well.
Sandy*K*Mo - in my experience with the kids.. I usually can tell where it comes from when I talk to the parents. How can I get them to change so their child will?
Kathy - Yes, Jennifer, I explain in the book, that the "bully" is suit you wear when you wan to feel better about yourself by controlling someone else. However, in the long run, the bully DOESN'T feel better about himself
jo march - I can vouch for the gender bias of female bullies, work with adol. fem. at risk and they are so hard on one another , even so called friends
Kathy - Karen, a Bully might bully because he is angry about abuse he received in the past. He hides it under his "Bully suit"
ajbod - I teach in a multiage classroom and I've found that the bullying tendencies decrease as the child feels more comfortable in the classroom.
ajbod - I am surprised to hear that more bullies are girls, I didn't expect that.
Kathy - Sometimes the victim gets so tired of being bullied, that he or she begins to bully and then it goes on & on. I call this the Bully Cycle. We keep making more bullies!!! It needs to stop.
kat/Kathleen - Kathy, maybe your next book could be for parents of bullies :-)
Mountainette 4/WV - Can you give us your address and how much the book is?
Sandy*K*Mo - :-) That's what I need..
Karen/Can - If the "victim" leaves the scene, is it most common that bullies just find a new victim?
kat/Kathleen - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0937004111/teachersnet/ $9.95
Kathy - The book is $9.95 plus $2.00 S. & H. My address is Kathy Noll, 3300 Chestnut St., Reading, PA 19605
jo march - I see the bully cycle with the girls I work with a Lot kathy!
Kathy - Yes, Karen, the bully will find someone else smaller, younger or weaker to control.
jo march - i'd like to hear advice for sandy's ? about the parents
kat/Kathleen - Kathy, do victims become bullies?
Mountainette 4/WV - Thanks, I definitely will be mailing you a check tomorrow!!!!
Kathy - A lot of times the parents are bullies, or they might be overly strict which causes their children to rebel, or they might use little discipline in their homes & give more "control" to an up and coming bully.
Sandy*K*Mo - I teach in a small town, very little movement in and out. When I talked to one parent about it she said "when we were young we picked on his parents" I had to pick myself up from the floor.
jo march - Kathy, what are you views on Bully's valuing Force as a Means of Control in relations and how to overcome this in classroom management?By this ..
ajbod - Kathy, do you speak at conferences? I'm on the OCTELA board and we're always looking for writers to speak to groups of teachers at our conferences.
kat/Kathleen - ajbod, where are you located?
ajbod - central Ohio
Kathy - A victim needs to know that if he or she faces the thing they fear (the Bully), they will lose that fear.
jo march - mean if too forceful student may tune out (bully type )or worse try to battle with you in attempt to gain control over you?
kat/Kathleen - welcome to our newest arrivals, we're chatting with author Kathy Noll ("Taking the Bully By the Horns")
Kathy - If the bullying is verbal, the victim should confront the bully about him. Tell him how he or she really feels. If it's physical I advise the parents & teachers to definitely get involved and to tell the child to avoid the bully at all costs. Ignore him.
kat/Kathleen - "I faced the thing I feared the most, And now it all seems clear. I've found the strength inside of me, And all I've lost is fear.
kat/Kathleen - (that is from the book :-)
Kathy - Currently I have not been doing conferences but will keep all requests on file for future.
ajbod - thanks, can you be reached through your web page?
jo march - what about if bully (and i'm talking older students here) trying to bully the teacher, ? best approach other than sending student out, or detention, or principal?
Kathy - My web site gives a lot more info. about my book. You will find my e-mail address there & can send me additional questions from there as well.
kat/Kathleen - People can contact me via e-mail if you need Kathy's address, e-mail, web site: kat@teachers.net
Mary K&1 - Is bullying a learned behavior? If so who are the most common modelers?
kat/Kathleen - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0937004111/teachersnet/ is Kathy's url..
Kathy - Yes, bullying can be a learned behavior. Parents, siblings, so-called friends.
kat/Kathleen - Kathy, at what age does bullying usually begin?
Kathy - Sometimes a child will become a bully simply because he or she is self-conscious about himself. Meaning, I don't like my nose, so I'm gonna keep making fun of your hair to take the attention off myself.
phamble - Is a bully a leader gone wrong?
Kathy - Bully can begin at only a few years old. That would be learned behavior. I hit, because I was hit. I kick because my older sister kicked me...
kat/Kathleen - phamble asks "Is a bully a leader gone wrong?" interesting concept, good question
Kathy - Good statement phamble! Yes, the bully certainly has the strength to be a leader & if he or she felt better about themselves they would be. I know some "recovering" bullies & they understand now what they did & how it affected those around them, and now they are better for it.
sheila - Some adults are bullies who have perfected their moves.
kat/Kathleen - Kathy, then giving the bully positive ways to wield power might be a good strategy??
Kathy - Yes, that is the invalidation. Adults have learned how to bully so smooth - - someone will say something to you & walk away and you - simply - feel - bad, but don't know what hit you. Invalidation!! Adult bullies!
kat/Kathleen - The book, "Taking The Bully By The Horns" can be ordered via Kathy's web site: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0937004111/teachersnet/
phamble - As a teacher, I have found that giving some bullies a positive leadership role, then teaching them HOW to do it while insuring that they behave responsibly, sometimes causes them to reconsider their negative behavior. It's as though they learned to bully as a way to get the attention they can also get by being a good leader.
kat/Kathleen - phamble, I think that is an excellent intervention method to try before punishment
SuzyQ/OK/3 - Hello: I've been Sneaky Peeking. Have learned a lot. :-) Thanks Ms. Noll!
phamble - I believe punishment actually reinforces bullying most of the time. They bully to get negative attention.
Kathy - Yes, like I said the book has chapters dedicated to both the Bullies & the Victims. The book is self-help & self-esteem. Simply yelling at the bullies to knock it off won't help. They need to see themselves & what they are doing. To turn the situation around and see how they wouldn't like it.
Kathy - You're welcome Suzy
kat/Kathleen - Kathy, is there anything we didn't ask you about bullies that you feel we should know? If not, tell us how long it took you to write the book.
kat/Kathleen - Kathy, there is a feedback page at the back of the manual, do you hear from many readers?
Mountainette 4/WV - Maybe reading a chapter to the class and then have them role play, possibly using a victim as the bully and a bully as a victim.
SuzyQ/OK/3 - Good idea Mountainette!
Sandy*K*Mo - I would like for you to write in short story form for My age kids.. 5 & 6 years old..
kat/Kathleen - Mountainette ... that sounds like an excellent preventative activity (or intervention)
kat/Kathleen - Sandy, I have read the book ... it will help me deal with kids ages 5 & 6
phamble - Do you address peer mediation in your book?
Kathy - It took over a year to interview kids to write the book & have Dr. Carter edit it. I'd like to by saying first, yes role playing with the book would be excellent. But what is serious now in the news is all the serious violence going on in schools now with guns & killings - - My book is important now because this issue has gotten so serious. Although bullying has been around for as long as people have been around, it's only been recently that we've become aware enough to do something about. I hope that with my book I have prevented some future bullies from arising and lessened some of the crime & percentage of children who grow up to become sociopaths.
kat/Kathleen - grade 1 teacher, we are just wrapping up the meeting about Bullies with author Kathy Noll, "Taking the Bully By the Horns"
Kathy - I will answer any unanswered people had through email if they wish to contact me. Thanks to everyone for their excellent questions.
kat/Kathleen - Kathy, thank you for coming to www.teachers.net to talk about an issue that isn't dealt with very much in the media or in other books for children..
Karen/Can - Thank you Kathy and Kathleen!
kat/Kathleen - People can also contact me if you need help finding kathy Noll or her book. Good night Kathy, and thank you very much!!
phamble - Thanks, Ms. Noll. I wish I had logged on sooner! Adios
Kathy - You're welcome, Kathleen. This is an important, it feels good to get the word out. I hope this helped.
Mary K&1 - Kathy, thank you very much for such good information!
Mountainette 4/WV - I am looking forward to reading your book, Kathy. Thanks for sharing your time tonight!!!
Sandy*K*Mo - Kathy thank you very much.. you have helped me out. :-)
Kathy - Thanks also to everyone for being patient with my slow browser!
kat/Kathleen - Goodnight everyone, thank you for coming to www.teachers.net tonight!! Check out our homage for more info about the site and other events http://www.teachers.net
SuzyQ/OK/3 - My thanks also, come back and visit us at Teachers Net!
kat/Kathleen - Kathy, we'll have you back when your next book is out :-)
Kathy - Thanks, Kathleen!!! Time goes by real fast when you're typing as fast as you can!!!
Kathy - My web site is http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0937004111/teachersnet/
Kathy - Anyone who is left, please send me any questions or comments you might have about my web site/book & its content. Good night & take care.

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